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Howard Dean: ‘It’s Likely The Individual Mandate Will Be Declared Unconstitutional’

Video » 121 comments

On Monday, former DNC chairman Howard Dean appeared on CBS This Morning to talk about the Supreme Court’s impending health care decision. While he said ObamaCare has several good components, Dean predicted that the court will rule the individual mandate unconstitutional.

Dean told host Charlie Rose that he thinks Justice Anthony Kennedy’s swing vote will side with the conservative justices when it comes to the individual mandate issue:

“I do believe that it’s likely the individual mandate will be declared unconstitutional. Kennedy will probably side with the four right-wing justices. But I’d be very surprised if they — I think Kennedy will switch sides and it will be 5-4 in favor of severing that finding from the rest of the bill. The question is going to be, is this individual mandate question, can that be considered separately from the rest of the bill? And I think it will be.”

Dean himself called ObamaCare a “missed opportunity.”

Conceding “I’m not a lawyer,” Dean also said the health care legislation can remain in place without the mandate. “It’s definitely not necessary for the bill to succeed,” he said. Dean continued: “It was mainly put in by academics who built the program for Gov. Romney in Massachusetts, they had did it there, and for insurance companies who will benefit from extra customers.”

But the truth, he said, “is that the number of so-called free riders — people who will refuse to get insurance until they get sick — is going to be very, very small.”

Dean contended the actual benefit of the individual mandate is “relatively small.” He further observed: “Everyone is a libertarian in America, whether Democratic, Republican or independent. They don’t like to be told what to do by government.”

Take a look, via CBS:

(H/T Daily Caller)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/More-Liberty/100003578184547 More Liberty

    He doesn’t know – only those judges know.

  • Anonymous

    Even liberals like Dean knew the individual mandate unconstitutional. Behold, the corruption of America.

  • http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/profile.php?__user=100000078849266 Brian Garceau

    The mandate isn’t such a bad idea. It’s paying for care the smart way. If you go to the emergency room because you don’t have heah insurance the government pays for it. Why should the goverment pay the extra cost of emergency care becuase you didn’t buy health insurance.

  • Anonymous

    The Washington Times had an interesting article, basically saying the “liberal” justices are pretty much guaranteed to vote in lockstep with their party, but the conservative justices are more likely to look at the constitution so its possible they’ll vote either way.  Since even a new Washington Post poll shows 96% (last I looked) think its unconstitutional I suspect the conservative judges will vote against it – most of the country has strong opposition to it, for the most part the only supporters are those who financially benefit from it and the far left, and many of them I suspect are lemmings just supporting it because their party supports it, though many on the left also genuinely think its a good idea and the benefits outweigh the negatives. 

  • Anonymous

    They shoudn’t know already.  The hearings haven’t concluded. 

  • Anonymous

    Wow howard dean is smoking something. The individual mandate is the core of this law and will definitely pass. Ms Pelosi has been very confident of the individual mandate being upheld and i have faith in her confidence just as all dems should. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/More-Liberty/100003578184547 More Liberty

    Come on – with the exception of maybe one or two – they all have their minds made up.

  • Ben Dover

     I love the Ivory Tower Conservatives who have no idea how much they are paying for their ditch digging cousins to get their care thru the emergency room on the Fed/State/Local government tab.  Having used a number of Rush-listening, non-insured subcontractors over the years, I got to see the hypocrisy first hand.  Too cheap and too stupid to buy insurance and get regular health care, they get bankrupted at the first major medical incident.  Then they get mad when they can’t get disability.  Then its off to get food stamps and welfare….but they still love them some Rush.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/More-Liberty/100003578184547 More Liberty

    First off the “government” doesn’t pay for anything – taxpayer do.

  • Ben Dover

     Hair is split.

  • JustAsking2012

    I still believe that the poster “tolstoy” is a fake. Nobody blindly follows like this guy.

    Why do you put your faith in Pelosi, more than Dean? And wasn’t Pelosi the one who was equally confident that she’d keep the House blue?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emma-Thomas/100003357377085 Emma Thomas

    Dean is a proper lefty, which is why he hates the individual mandate, a conservative idea cooked up by the Heritage Foundation.

  • Ian Kable

    “If you go to the emergency room because you don’t have heah insurance the government pays for it.”

    That wasn’t the case before 1986. Before EMTALA, the prevalence of patient dumping was no more an issue than it is now. However, that didn’t stop its supporters from using that argument to push the bill. Since 1986; hospitals are compensated for less than 50% of all emergency visits, which is one of the primary reasons the cost of health-care continues to rise. Before 1986; obstetrics, orthopedics, and bone fractures were health-care issues most people could pay for out of pocket. That’s far from the case these days.

    “Why should the [citizenry] pay the extra cost of emergency care becuase you didn’t buy health insurance.”

    We shouldn’t. The problem with your position is that you are putting the cart before the horse.

    Class is effing dismissed ;)

  • https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawmS1H0GlNDiHCXlUQxKLF8-_OhSQfgcNpg Orktane

    And frankly that’s a conservative ideal aka pull your own bootstraps..

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous

    If someone chooses not to have health insurance receives care why not send them a bill with the same liability as a tax lien?  If the person has assets and therefore the ability to pay, they pay (sooner or later).  If a person with no assets and no foreseeable ability for future assets gets care then they wouldn’t pay and the government would pay for it, with a lien against the individual in case they do eventually get assets.   

    That’d put the burden on paying on the individual, but the freedom to not pay thousands per year for something they may not use.  I’ve gone through periods of my life where it was years in between any kind of healthcare other than annual flu shots through my employer.  I have friends who when having jobs without health insurance they utilized neighborhood clinics where they could pay adhoc for care.  Even beyond the constitutional issues, the mandate was just a stupid idea.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=611456563 Frank Looper

     Are you really saying that judges should vote for what the people want? If that’s the case, why even have judges? Just vote for everything!

  • Ben_Hz

    At which point in your life did you become a birther Chuckles? Oh don’t answer that . I already know! My bad!

  • Anonymous

    And then again – it may be declared “constitutional”.  What then?

  • Anonymous

    It’s going down in flames..:)

    On the first day of oral arguments in the case challenging President Obama’s national health care law, justices seemed skeptical that the individual mandate should be considered a tax — one of the main consitutional defenses being offered for the law.

    To be clear, today’s 90 minutes of oral arguments did not concern the underlying merits of the case, but whether an 1876 law called the Anti-Injunction Act bars the Court from ruling on the suit at this time. Under the Anti-Injunction Act, people cannot challenge a tax in court until after they have paid it, something that would effectively punt the issue until at least 2015. However, there is some overlap between this question and the idea of whether the mandate is a tax, and justices on both sides of the ideological fence expressed skepticism that the mandate should be treated as a tax.

    “This cannot be a revenue raising measure, because if it’s successful, there won’t be any revenue raised,” said Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the mandate.

    Another liberal on the court, Justice Stephen Breyer, said of Congress’s description of the fine for non-compliance with the mandate, “They called it a penalty and not a tax for a reason.”

    Why does this matter?  Congress cannot mandate a penalty for failing to engage in commerce — but it does have the power to tax.  Despite Obama’s protestations during the ObamaCare debate that the mandate was not a tax, his team has been forced to argue that it in fact does qualify as a tax, since that’s the only basis on which Congress can impose such a mandate.  Most people believed that the conservative jurists on the court would object to that definition, but this looks as though skepticism on the constitutionality of the mandate goes wider than first thought.  If Ginsburg and Breyer don’t buy the tax argument, the mandate will get overturned — and not by a 5-4 vote.

    Alito closed the loop on the question:

    Justice Sam Alito asked Verrilli whether he could point to another case in which courts identified something as not a tax for the purposes of the Anti-Injunction Act while still ruling it was a constitutional exercise of taxing power. Verrilli could not name any.

    That doesn’t bode well for ObamaCare advocates.  If the mandate gets struck as a constitutional overreach, then regardless of whether the Supreme Court finds severability or not, the entire structure of ObamaCare collapses.  It will hasten momentum for its repeal, and insurers will switch sides to demand its complete rejection.

  • Anonymous

    That witch pelosi…she’s the one I want to see when her bucket of fish heads is found unconstitutional.

  • JustAsking2012

    Is there ANYTHING the left won’t blame on the right? Yeesh.

  • Anonymous

    No, I couldn’t think of a proper way to say people (in a huge and diverse sample) generally tend to make the correct call.  While that may be true for some things, it probably isn’t for subjective issues, which this isn’t.

  • Anonymous

    The government IS ‘we the people..’…even the dimwits.

  • Anonymous

    The Commerce clause has been used erroneously by scumbag politician before, and the Court has put them down. I see nothing new in putting down this piece of garbage law. This, or no other administration can dictate what we will, or will not buy! Just how ludicrous can Obimbo get?!!

  • Anonymous

    Why the hell do you think we don’t know what’s going on?! We know the bottom-feeders and the illegal aliens are being allowed to shaft us! What we are trying to do is put a government in place that will put a halt to the wholesale theft of American tax-dollars.

  • Anonymous

    Why should the government pay for it??? Why shouldn’t that bottom-feeder be held to account for their debt?!

  • Anonymous

    Dean is being sent out to already spin the verdict as favorable no matter which way it falls. I expect to hear the exact same line of thought coming from several media heads for the next few days.

  • Anonymous

    Hair is split? There’s no splitting of hairs in this issue. We, the taxpayer are paying for everything.

  • Anonymous

    before 1986 the cost of an emergency room visit was a pittance of what it is today…just like every aspect of health care cost.Do hospitals today write off the unpaid balance in an Arthur Anderson tax manuver, or do they recover the cost from those who can pay? Or perhaps they do both. Please advise professor.

  • Anonymous

    Then your going to see things happening you don’t want to see!

  • Anonymous

    Leftists are arguing in front of the Supreme Court today that they shouldn’t decide this case, or at least should delay it. Judges having none of it. Pelosi & OBAMO now panic-stricken.

     

  • Anonymous

     Please denote when Chuck mentioned the word birth certificate in his rational argument.

    At which point in your life did you forget sound reason? Oh don’t answer that. I already know! My bad!

  • Anonymous

    As someone that is interested in legal ramifications, I am thoroughly enjoying what the result of this particular case will be. It will set a future precedent and that’s why I believe that the mandate will go down.

    Bring on 2012!

  • Anonymous

     Actually, I think this bodes well for ObamneyCare.  If the court liberals didn’t think there were five votes to uphold it, they would likely be seeking to delay a decision on the merits, as by using the tax injunction act to kick the can down the road.  There are legitimate legal arguments in favor of the tax position, but the court had to appoint an independent lawyer to argue it, since neither the states nor the administration specifically appealed the 4th circuit ruling on the point.  I believe Breyer and Ginsburg are confident of Kennedy’s vote, and maybe Roberts as well.  Roberts does not want a 5-4 decision on the merits.  Scalia might even support it, based on his past commerce clause cases.  Righties are overconfident, mainly because they are listening to constitutional fundamentalists who worship the holy text and have little real knowledge about the 200 years of SCOTUS constitutional jurisprudence.

  • Anonymous

    The “far left” opposes anything short of single-payer.  You are badly misinformed by the propaganda your so-called news sources are providing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emma-Thomas/100003357377085 Emma Thomas

    Look it up, you will find what I said is exactly accurate. Your opinion doesn’t mean diddly squat.

  • Anonymous

    Hmmm. who to believe, a politician with an M.D., or a former SCOTUS litigator from the Reagan admin…

    Reagan Solicitor General To Fox: Health Care Mandate Is Constitutional

    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201203250004

    Yes, I know it’s the evil Media Matters, but in fact the link is a video straight from Fox with absolutely no commentary.  The headline comes from the Fox News screen capture.

  • Anonymous

    If everyone is mandated by law, to have health insurance you will see arise in enforcement of that law. Is that a good thing? Will private hospitals be exempt from having to take emergency patients who don’t have any proof without fear of recrimination. Illegal immigrants will have to show proof of American issued insurance and if they can’t, should be arrested on the spot?- I mean how does Obama plan to enforce this other then hiring hundreds of IRS enforcers to come at you financially.

  • Anonymous

    we’re also paying for decade long wars, why aren’t you up in arms about that loss of your tax payer money.. what about the billions the US govt gives in the form of finacial aid to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan ect ect why not a peep about that tax parer money?

  • JustAsking2012

    Yeah yeah… everything ever, is the right’s fault. The left has never made a mistake, or done anything wrong.

    Have you met tolstoy? I bet you guys would really hit it off.

  • Anonymous

    What then? My children and grandchildren will suffer the consequences. That’s pretty important to me.

  • Anonymous

    The really scary thing in this article is that Howard Dean is so consistently wrong. However, I pray that you are right.

  • Anonymous

     You wish…get your facts straight…neither the states nor the admin appealed the 4th circuit ruling on the tax injunction act.  The court had to appoint a lawyer to argue it when they agreed to consider it.  And Obama is not worried…this week at the court is a win-win, unless the justices kick the can down the road and accept the tax argument.  If the court upholds the mandate, as most experts who know the court’s commerce clause precedents expect, he gets his signature legislative accomplishment, and the American people benefit down the road with more coverage for more people.  If the mandate is unconstitutional, Obama gets to campaign against Congress AND the court, and the base, which was never happy with the mandate compromise, is energized to vote for pols who will approve something better, like a public option or even single payer. 

  • Anonymous

    The number of bureaucrats will rise exponentially and the number of health care professionals will continue to decline. You don’t have to be Edgar Cayce to predict that one.
    That is just one more big reason to strike down Obamacare.

  • Anonymous

    You’re right, Harp. Single payer is a better system. 

  • Anonymous

     Obamacare doesn’t just discourage entrance into the medical profession;
    it encourages those who are already practicing to leave it. The survey
    states that “health care reform is motivating doctors to change their
    retirement timeline.” In fact, 43 percent of respondents said they are
    considering retiring within the next five years as a result of the law. A
    surgeon from Michigan wrote that under Obamacare, “We will be moving
    further away from humanity-based health care and more towards the
    patient as a commodity. This was not the way my father practiced—nor
    will I. Winding down to retire early.”

    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/...

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/howard-dean-predicts-supreme-court-will-declare-individual-mandate-unconstitutional/#ixzz1qF9mgJmL

  • Anonymous

     If you are prepared to wait 6 months to see a specialist and 3 months for a MRI.

  • Anonymous

    so you are so stupid to think that just because a conservative has a idea, that all conservatives have to follow…..maybe thats how it works on the left but not the right

  • Anonymous

     From stats Canada

    Accessibility is fundamental to the quality of health care. In Canada,
    waiting time has been identified as a key measure of access and the
    major barrier among those who experienced difficulties obtaining care.1,2
    In 2005, approximately 20% of Canadians reported adverse effects as a
    result of waiting for health care, including worry and stress and pain.

    http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-003-x/2010002/article/11144/findings-resultats-eng.htm

  • Ian Kable

    “before 1986 the cost of an emergency room visit was a pittance of what it is today…just like every aspect of health care cost.”

    Thanks for restating a key part of my premise.

    “Do hospitals today write off the unpaid balance in an Arthur Anderson
    tax manuver, or do they recover the cost from those who can pay? Or
    perhaps they do both.”

    They do both, but I don’t see how it matters how they recover from the shortfall. What matters is that there is a federally mandated scenario which makes the shortfall inherent.
     
    Again, you put the cart before the horse.

  • Henry Wood

    Justasking, there is no disputing the fact that the individual mandate is an idea that originated with the Heritage Foundation.  That’s just a fact.

    I heard an interesting discussion about the case today.  First off, it was interesting to hear that in the 1 case in which the law was found to be unconstitutional, the woman who brought the suit is now in bankruptcy because of unpaid medical bills. Her costs will now be absorbed by taxpayers and rate payers.

    Also, there was a clear explanation of how the mandate works.  If you do not choose to purchase insurance, you would pay an additional tax (due with your regular income taxes) on a sliding scale based on income.  There is a subsidy here for households based on their % of income above/below the poverty level. 

    So for the vast number of people who might choose not to have insurance because they are young and healthy and not making very much money, they would actually pay no additional taxes whatsoever.  There will be some households who earn a great deal more than the poverty level, but choose not to purchase health insurance in a form of protest, and those households would have to pay an additional tax.  The carrot would be to incentivize these households to purchase insurance so they would not have to pay an additional tax and they would have the added benefit of being insured.

    Both the WH and its opponents do not want the mandate to be decoupled from the bill, though there is a 3rd party appointed by the court to argue for severability.  If the bill is not struck down but the mandate is, that could lead to skyrocketing insurance costs so I think that is a bad outcome.

    Seems that the case will turn on the commerce clause, and this is probably where the Obama administration wins.  Scalia notably ruled in an earlier case that the commerce clause applies to persons who want to grow pot for their own consumption.  He ruled that the feds to have a right to make laws on people who grow their own because it affects interstate commerce.

    A ruling against the mandate would be very far reaching because it would be a complete reinterpretation of the commerce clause.  No longer would the feds be allowed to use tax benefits to encourage compliance with laws, which would affect all sorts of existing laws.

    So it would appear that the bill will be upheld if the ruling is based on precedent.  We have seen that this particular court is willing to make sweeping decisions which ignore previous precedent, however, so that outcome is far from certain.  If the decision is based on precedent, Obamacare will stand.  If, however, the court is a political body bent on harming the president’s re-election chances, then the entire bill may be struck down.

    Hard to say how this will work out.

  • Anonymous

    Tolstoy, if you say it’ll pass, I can take it to the bank that it won’t.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed. The sad thing is there were great ideas put on the table for “reform” not “overhaul” and they all got pushed aside to promote a socialist model.

    The big one was the cost of drugs, not only was that not addressed the price for standard prescriptions has already gone up as soon Obamacrae was passed. I asked my pharmacist about it, he said across the board increases were made as a result of the legislation.

  • Anonymous

    A Leftist Lawyer got mocked and laughed at by the Supreme’s today for using the term ‘Tax Penalty’ to describe the individual mandate as not one or the other, but BOTH at the same time.

    The Little Scholarly Leftist got bludgeoned thusly: “General Verrilli, today you are arguing that the penalty is not a tax. Tomorrow you are going to be back and you will be arguing that the penalty is a tax.”

    More Botox for the witchy Pelosi is in order.

  • Anonymous

    Well Jooce-eee, if you had been paying attention, all of us have been hollering about the misuse of taxpayer dollars. But, if we brake down your comments, some taxpayer dollars have bee going to our allies. But that’s a different issue.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bart-Morgay/100001554351938 Bart Morgay

    Don’t kid yourself Harp.

    An overwhelming majority of Canadians would not swap their healthcare system for the US one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emma-Thomas/100003357377085 Emma Thomas

    What you are saying has zilch to do what I wrote. So, Jog on, Mac.

  • Anonymous

    It seems like all the “pundits” are predicting the mandate will be upheld. God, I hope they’re wrong!

  • Anonymous

    So was the hit piece they did on O’Reilly recently, except they conveniently chose to show only the video/audio that appeared to support their argument and didn’t include the video/audio that clearly showed they were full of crap.  Its hard to take such an outfit seriously. 

  • Anonymous

    Gee, that’s a winning strategy.  Lets run against Congress (it’d have to be both parties less he be seen as a hypocrite), and Republican candidates, and the US Supreme Court, of which two members I appointed myself, and oh by the way, run against the majority of the American people because heh, I’m an elitist liberal and I think I know better than anyone else what is best for them.

  • Anonymous

    Loved the video! Thanks for posting the link.

  • Anonymous

    “If you are prepared to wait 6 months to see a specialist and 3 months for a MRI.”

    or you can just die without health care like millions of americans have–
    ya–i can wait a few months ..
    but since your ‘theory’ does not exist anywhere in the world where people have single payer–
    u must have pulled that from your rectum..
    if americas system is so good..
    why is the rest of world doign the opposite?
    oh ya-because conservatives are so smart??
    heheha

  • Anonymous

    unless you are very rich or very poor of course–then you pay no taxes
    or a church or political hack–then you just take money and give none back..

    but hey–i am sure you never meant to be factual anyway huh?

  • Anonymous

    Congrats Howie, you’re not completely brain dead!

  • Anonymous

    well the  middle and lower middle class working people are..

  • Anonymous

    I, among the HUGE VAST MAJORITY of people who want obamacare repealed, hope Scream Dean is correct…for once!!
    Obozo needs to be taught a lesson about wiping his arse with the Constitution he hates so much!!

  • Anonymous

    uh–were you not in the group who said the president was not born in america????
    rational?
    hahahha
    ya right

  • Anonymous

    yeah, stupid….thanks for confirming it

  • Anonymous

    Okay.  Good.  The mandate is unconstitutional. 
    But the rest may stay? 
    Well how about the Federal Government deciding for healthcare providers who they can and cannot treat?  How can that be Constitutional? 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U7T5LVIQK7AMIBM5WI765VDVDQ smald4lib

    It always helps to read the insurance mandate before you open your mouths and speak out your buts.

    SEC. 1555 o42 U.S.C. 18115.. FREEDOM NOT TO
    PARTICIPATE IN FEDERAL

    HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAMS.

    No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or
    health

    insurance issuer offering group or individual health
    insurance coverage

    shall be required to participate in any Federal health
    insurance

    program created under this Act (or any amendments made by

    this Act), or in any Federal health insurance program
    expanded by

    this Act (or any such amendments), and there shall be no
    penalty

    or fine imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to
    participate

    in such programs.So where is the penalty? 

  • Jardino

    The law would not be repealed if the individual mandate is found unsconstitutional. Unless the GOP wins the Senate (unlikely), the law will not be repealed. Plus, would Romney or Obama sign to repeal Romneycare? Oops … I meant Obamacare.

    LOL @ HUGE VAST MAJORITY … maybe 53% … and many of them are liberals who think the law did not go far enough.

    I

  • Henry Wood

    The point, I think, is that this was a compromise position for democrats, where they accepted a republiklan plan in hopes that it would be acceptable.  This is also a plan designed to appease insurance companies, who have been very quiet. 

    Then, after we compromised with you guys and the insurance industry, republiklan politicians and think tanks disingenuously pretended that they hadn’t supported and idea that they themselves had come up with. 

    It’s hard to think that there is any motive other than politics for your “constitutional” objections now.

  • Henry Wood

    “the conservative justices are more likely to look at the constitution so its possible they’ll vote either way.”

    So what Chuck is saying here is that the constitutional foundation for the challenge is very weak.  I tend to agree with Chuck here. I’m also unhappy with the bill as it stands, but constitutionally it’s on pretty firm ground when you consider the precedents regarding the commerce clause.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U7T5LVIQK7AMIBM5WI765VDVDQ smald4lib

    And for those of you who think corporations are people the Affordable Health Care Act was written by the insurance industry and when passed their stocks went up. Moreover, the Stand Your Ground Law was written by ALEC, on behalf of WalMart and the NRA and has been passed in other states almost word for word. This should satisfy you Repubicons and Teapubilicans if you believe that corporations are people and write your laws for your elected officials. Isn’t this what you want? You want the corporations to run the country because they are the free market and they don’t need any regulations? Right? Center for Media and Democracy……..

  • Anonymous

    What? I’m not following your line of reasoning?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

     and without mandate there can be will be no preexisting condition reform as it is impossible without a mandate. The Insurance companies are chomping at the bit to throw kids out of hospitals stop expensive meds this will be a big win for the conservatives nothing makes them happier than sick children being denied care.
      To compare our Insurance system to Canada’s is hilarious lets go count the bankruptcies and homelessness caused by illness here and there. Let’s count the people denied coverage for skin cancer because they had acne here and there. Lets count the times alcoholism which ended 30 years prior is used as a preexisting condition for heart failure.

  • http://twitter.com/Darr247 Darr Darr

    Hah… good reverse psychology…  claim they’ll rule one way just to piss them off so they’ll rule the other way out of spite.

  • http://twitter.com/kikakiki26 emd26

    the good old dems never missed a discussion they couldn’t stab each other in the back on.  Thanks Howard

  • Love of Country

    Of course corporations are people, you stupid fool, LMFAO!

    You’re thinking of Unions ….. ROTFLMFAO

  • Anonymous

    yeah i can see the compromise, and how many republicans votes did you get on this compromise again?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=505750556 Jack Kelly

     I actually agree with part of this.

    I’m not for the mandate, BUT SOMETHING needs to be done w/all of these people who just walk into a hospital and expect to get basic health care for free!  I’m SICK and damn tired of paying for these people.  They need to have SOME responsibility for their health care and paying for it.  Those of us who have insurance should not have to pick up the tab w/higher premiums.

    I also do not like the “mandate” because all it does is give more $$ to the insurance companies (which I’m sure Republicans are happy about because they give very handsomely to their campaigns, as do big oil/gas). 

    I like some of where you’re going w/your ideas.  I was even thinking those w/out insurance can not have their medical debts discharged in bankruptcy court (which I realize a change in fed law would be required).  One doesn’t want to get health insurance?  Fine, but if you need medical attention then you are either enrolled automatically into a health insurance program, or you pay the bill outta your own pocket and it can not be discharged.

  • WiddleBabyDanielson

     Oh brother.

  • Love of Country

    Howard Scrotum is the dishonest,misplaced, angry face of the tard movement …. YEEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • WiddleBabyDanielson

     In 2005, approximately 20% of Canadians reported adverse effects as a
    result of waiting for health care, including worry and stress and pain.

    But how many Americans can’t ever get healthcare?
    Where do we stand in the world in preventable deaths?
    http://www.allcountries.org/ranks/preventable_deaths_country_ranks_1997-1998_2002-2003_2008.html

  • WiddleBabyDanielson

    A whole lot of grown republican men cry?

  • Anonymous

    actually the ‘top-feeders’ those 1% folks are giving you a bigger shaft than all the others combined…laughing all the way to their offshore banks…ask ‘em…

  • Anonymous

     dcjesus…/ Before shooting your mouth off, maybe you should learn how to read. Once you do that you can go on the link, which is the official Stats for the Canadian Government.And if you don`t like it….tough.

  • Henry Wood

    CJ,

    Once the right had been whipped into a frenzy with “death panels” and other blatant lies, it’s hard to see why republiklans would have voted for the bill.

    It is clear that this bill was NOT what we on the left wanted.  I still hold a grudge against Obama for failing to include the public option, because that was one of the few things that made the bill palatable at all.

    It’s also clear that this bill did follow the blueprint suggested by conservatives.

    By any definition this was a compromise.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

    The mandate is the ONLY  way to stop Insurance companies from using preexisting condition as an excuse to not pay for care DUH

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

     Without a mandate if you are sick and get Insurance your present illness or any illness that can be possibly somehow be related is not covered again preexisting illness. Having worked in the medical field for a while between construction jobs I have seen this used many times.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

     A conservative had an idea are you sure?

  • Anonymous

    And what consequences will those be poster?

  • Anonymous

    And what will those things be?

  • Anonymous

    a liberal with a brain? well its no you, i will keep looking

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

     The greatness of a Country is not based on how it treats it’s rich or middle class it’s how it treats it’s less fortunate. So obviously conservatives want to compete with Sub Saharan Africa as to how we treat our people!

  • Anonymous

    What a load of crap!! We take care of people who cannot take care of themselves, the elderly, children, and those with physical and metal disabilities who can’t fend for themselves. Everyone else can do for themselves, that part of being a responsible adult!

  • Anonymous

    That has what….to do with the bottom-feeders with their hands out, expecting to be taken care of with our tax-dollars?
    Maybe you should take a look at the breakdown of just who is paying the most in taxes. Correct me if I’m wrong but, it sure as hell isn’t the bottom-feeders, is it!!

  • Anonymous

    What is this obsession you have with crying. Are you in counseling?

  • Centrist79

    Since the Individual Mandate has not been enacted yet, it is possible court could wait until the time there is an actual penalty. In think that is 2014

  • Anonymous

    What ever happen to repeal and replaced, does that mean they had no plan in the first place?

  • Anonymous

    Who is against no  precondition health insurance, college students staying on their parents plan until age 26, no cap on insurance as not to lose your home while trying to save your child.

  • Anonymous

    What the hell are you babbling about, you moron?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

    Not  if the likes of the GOP get in Office  they have all preached ending social security, medicare, entitlements so it’s not a load of crap it’s a GOP wet dream.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

     cjdohio2 “well it’s no you” you just verified my statement.

  • http://gamewhen.com/ Michael T

     Not to split hairs, but Dean did not say he thought the individual mandate was unconstitutional.

    But rather that he thought there would be a 5-4 decision because of the conservative court.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tux-TDH_-VU Mr. Picatinny

    Obama will have to look for a new ManDate!

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tux-TDH_-VU Mr. Picatinny

    Different kind of mandate than the kind you’re used to worrying about Mikey.

  • http://gamewhen.com/ Michael T

    Many of us think the White House could have done a much better job of selling this.

    But the talk radio / Fox News megaphone apparently has them running scared. 

  • http://gamewhen.com/ Michael T

    Apparently that is what was debated before the court on Monday and the consensus is that will not happen.

  • Anonymous

    We have to face fact, and reality. Social Security, and Medicare, as they stand, are unsupportable, that’s a fact! What the GOP wants is to start remolding these “entitlements” so they do not bankrupt this country.
    As for me, I’d rather see these, and most other entitlements stopped and programs in put in place in the private sector that would replace, and be far better than what we have now.
    Obviously, there are certain segments of our society through no fault of their own who must be taken care of.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/FSD2K5T7HM7O3537KUGOFRRTRE JamieG

    This issue about the mandate is a good one.  We have states that require everyone to buy car insurance.  If the government can’t require people to buy health insurance to protect sick people, and the public safety from illnesses, then the state’s can’t require people to buy car insurance to protect public safety.  If the mandate is declared unconstitutional, then we will see lawsuits pop up like crazy over people being required to have car insurance to drive a vehicle.

  • Anonymous

    JamieG, they’re not all the same thing. No one is forced to buy a car, but the mandate forces everyone to buy health insurance just by virtue of their existence. Car insurance is required only if one has a vehicle, and the requirement is conditional upon the choice to drive a car.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/33E63EUBD3DBAAHC47FTI4JF4Y george

    How many thugs, killers, and sadist already work in the insurance industry searching high and low to find a reason to decline care hnowing full well that many diseases will kill in 5 years they put get continuation after continuation praying the patient dies before they have to spend money.
      The money saved from a single payer would be huge. Hospitals have to increase fees to cover uninsured that don’t pay so others paying insurance pay MORE. Those without insurance going to $1,000 emergency visit instead of a $100.00 Doctor visit. Annual doctor visits will save millions as the cost to fight disease caught early is much cheaper and has better outcomes. Healthier people are far less of a burden on the health care system.

  • Anonymous

     I totally agree George, as I read through these comments I’m struck by the lack of empathy for others with illness. I have a son who has epilepsy, surgery isn’t an option and he continues to have seizures while on medications. We (his parents) are paying for his medical care. It’s a huge burden, it’s like paying 2 house payments a month.

    My son will not be able to make the kind of money it will take to pay for his medical care in the future, he can’t even work or go to school. I can’t believe people would turn their backs and not care for the poor and sick in our society. The health of Americans, and how we take care of our most needy is an important safety issue for our Nation. No country remains a world power with a neglected society.

    I do think if you were faced with my situation and could see first hand the need for this help, and the people who need it, you would feel differently.

    Also I know of no other developed country in the world besides the US, where it’s citizens lose everything because of one illness in the family, and ultimately end up with nothing and in poverty.

  • Anonymous

     OK I have to reply to this one! The only thing that will happen to you if you choose not to sign up for Health Insurance, is a yearly fine, 1% of total income for 2014, if your income is below a certain level and you don’t sign up, there isn’t a fine for you. If you have religious beliefs that are against Health Insurance, no fine for you.

    The problem is we live in a society where if you are laying on a sidewalk and in need of help, help will come, and you’ll receive care. There is always a cost associated with this care. We will all need health care at some point in our lives, that’s why the mandate was put into place.

  • Anonymous

     OK I had to reply to this one, Actually by virtue of your existence you are going to have health issues at some time in your life, whether or not you have health insurance is your decision. But, the minute you have a stroke in public or you are in a horrible car accident and need medical attention at a hospital, as a society that takes care of it’s people, and you are not responsive, you don’t have a choice at that point, you are forced to be treated. And the cost is created.

    So your argument is backwards, there is more “Need” to carry required Health Insurance to protect the taxpayer, than there would be with car insurance.

    Also you can opt out, and not sign up with a Health provider under the Health Care Act.

  • Anonymous

     Can you please explain what consequences your grandchildren will suffer form more Health benefits? If you our your grandchildren don’t want it don’t sign up for it. It’s as simple as that. No one has taken away your right to decline. People who claim the Act is against their religious beliefs don’t have to sign up, it is written in the Act as such. If your are of a certain income level, you don’t have to sign up.

    Please read the Act to understand the benefits for you and your grandchildren.

    What your grandchildren will suffer from, is the raising cost for Health Care in this country if nothing is done to change the system we have now. And at the mercy of Insurance companies who are in the business of Health Care for profit not quality care.

  • Anonymous

     Well, your pharmacist didn’t explain the whole picture. The reason the drug companies are raising their prices now, is to squeez as much profit as they can in BEFORE the Health Care Act is in full effect! 2014! They expect to see their profit margins go down under the Health Care Act.

    And who would benefit from that? Hummm, let me see, oh that would be you I guess.

  • Anonymous

     Don’t sign up for the insurance, it’s as simple as that!

  • Anonymous

    I can’t believe you replied to a 3-month old thread. I couldn’t even remember it. Anyway we’ll probably know how the Supreme Court decides this on Monday.

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